[Johan]

I am really confused by your analogy here. The man that came out of the assembly blender couldn’t have come from the pile of dirt because the dirt would first have to be broken down into protons, neutrons and electrons before the blender could re-assemble those components into the man. I don’t think that even you doubt that we are made of atoms, right?

So, where is the issue here?

[jayceeii]

The blender represents all evolutionary or accidental causes which led to the bodies we have. For instance the starting material could be the pile of atoms left after a cremation.

The idea of the analogy is to compress the evolutionary forces with a comprehensible image, and also to compress the lifetime of the dirt being so it is obvious he was only wasting time he didn’t have to say he had found meaning instead of confronting reality.

I say it is a magical blender because until science has more to say (if it ever does) about the transformation of matter to a seeming immaterial presence, in effect the atheists are expecting magic to support them. For it is indeed magical, when dirt acquires a presence.

The body is certainly made of atoms. But I’m one of the proponents of Intelligent Design.

[Johan]

I think we might be using the term “presence” in a different way because I think a pile of dirt does have a presence. It occupies a physical spot in space. (nothing magical needed)

Are you simply trying to say that we don’t fully grasp the physics, chemistry and biology involved in consciousness? Sure, it isn’t fully understood at the moment, but that is a mystery, not magic. It would be magic if I asserted that it just suddenly appeared because it some being said an incantation, or performed a ritual.

The key point here though is that “just because I don’t have an explanation for why X is the case, that does not automatically make alternative possible explanations any more or less likely”.

Or to borrow an analogy: “Even if you could show me that my TV is broken and it doesn’t work, that does nothing to show that your TV is working.”. If you think I have something wrong, then directly say it, don’t couch it in metaphor.

[jayceeii]

By presence I mean a felt-presence, one that says, “I am here, I have experiences and memories, I make decisions, I have goals.” A pile of dirt is only present in a physical sense, and by atheism ultimately this is all human beings can claim too. As they presume they are something more I’m calling it a quasi-spiritual presumption that is unexamined.

Noticing science is making progress in some areas does not imply it can find answers in all areas. You have confidence it will one day find the connection between matter and a felt-presence, but should admit you will be dust at that time, for the cohesion of atoms which now gives you a facsimile of knowledge will be completely dissolved and absent.

In the meantime my poetic mind feels the term “magical” is justified, though yours does not. At least you must admit there is nothing concrete that is established at this time, also that this is not a top priority of science worldwide, as it might be did material minds have true existential concern. Being composed of atoms, they do not mind that they are atoms.

Soul explains very easily how there can be an immaterial presence in a physical body. The rudiments of the teaching are out there, though not the details yet. The question from your perspective might be how in the sam hill such a useful teaching got into the world of material minds, if there aren’t authorities who know about it and revealed this knowledge.

What the chap writes here appears to me to be mostly accurate, drawing from the Vedas:

https://www.manblunder.com/articlesview/vedanta-subtle-body